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ABOUT THAT WALLET

ABOUT THAT WALLET

About That Wallet is a financial lifestyle podcast hosted by Anthony Weaver. It's designed to help the sandwich generation build strong financial habits and make smarter money decisions. The podcast covers a wide range of personal finance topics, including Budgeting and saving, Investing, and Debt management. #aboutthatwallet #financialhabits #sandwichgeneration Support this podcast: https://www.aboutthatwallet.com/

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    ABOUT THAT WALLET
    Episode••41 min

    352: [Tina Berger] Invest Like a Mother

    I get the opportunity to speak with Tina Berger, Author of Invest Like a Mother, to discuss how to invest, evaluate investments and how to ask better questions before we invest. Tina Berger is the author of Invest Like a Mother and a former investment advisor who spent more than twenty years helping Fortune 500 companies make better strategic decisions. Today, she helps people rethink one of the biggest assumptions in investing: that financial return is the only return worth evaluating. More about Tina https://investlikeamother.net https://www.tiktok.com/@tina_berger_us https://www.linkedin.com/in/tina-berger-358103/ https://www.youtube.com/@tinaberger-investlikeamother Support the show (Every dollar helps keep condiments in the fridge) Buy me a coffee: https://buymeacoffee.com/aboutthatwallet Patreon: https://patreon.com/aboutthatwallet https://aboutthatwallet.com Join Monthly newsletter: aboutthatwallet.com/newsletter Disclaimer The information in this podcast is for general informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute financial, legal, or tax advice. Please consult with a qualified professional for advice tailored to your individual circumstances. Episode 352

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    Transcript

    0:03

    Welcome back, everybody, back to another exciting show of the about that Wallet podcast where we help the Sam's generation build strong financial habits so that they can talk about money, spend money, and enjoy their money with confidence. Today I have somebody who is a mom but loves investing, who has been doing this for such a long time that she's willing to share with you all. And she is also the author of Investors Like a Mother. And you're going to learn so much more from her today. Her name is Tina Berger. She is also a former investor advisor who actually spent over at least what, 20 years just helping Fortune 500 companies make better strategic decisions. But today, she actually helps people like you and I really rethink the way of our biggest assumptions in investing and also help us with our financial returns. Not only the returns, but also how to understand your evaluations. So welcome to the show, Tina Burger.

    1:07

    Thank you so much. So, Tina, here with you.

    1:10

    Thank you so much for coming through. I mean, you've been doing such an amazing job with this. Why now is it a good time for you to start giving back to the people?

    1:20

    Well, we were talking a little bit before the, the show started about if, if after the, the long journey I've been on. So I, I've been, I started investing in my 20s and now I'm in my early 60s. So if I don't share what I see, then people have to start from zero because it's a, there's a lot of territory in here. And, and so it feels important for me to share what I've learned. And also there are some connections that I don't think, think everybody sees because of how everything's set up that I like to help people understand because I think if we had, when we know better, we do better. And I believe that with investing and even in the way that investments are designed and the way we think about them, can, we can do better. And I know I have, I've changed a lot about how I have approached investments over the course of my life. So I try to share because I think it's useful, not because I think everybody should do it the way that I do it, but because of the perspective that I have of first being an investment advisor myself. So I have my Series 7. I was a stockbroker. I worked for Morgan Stanley for a couple of years. And over the Last more than 20 years, I've worked inside of very large corporations with senior leaders and executives that are having to make decisions. And I see the pressure that they're under to make decisions that really focus only on profit growth. And there's a connection between our investment behavior and what we're seeing in these corporations that not everybody understands. So I try to help people see that and then I also want people to know that there's a whole ecosystem of untraditional types of investments that are out there. So it feels like an important perspective. I have kids that are in their 30s, kids that are in their 20s, and they're looking at a really different world than I looked at when I was in my 20s. And I have a lot of compassion and care about that.

    3:31

    Yeah. And by all of us. First of all, I just want to say thank you for not giving up on your children.

    3:41

    You know, I feel like we, the way I would say it is, you know, that we taught our kids that the environment was important, that caring about community members and friends was important, that, that fairness is important. And, and then all of a lot of our systems don't work that way. So we haven't fixed, we haven't fixed the systems. And so it's like we're sending them out there, tell them, you know, but that none of that really, a lot of that doesn't get reinforced.

    4:18

    And yeah, unsightly because in, in our lives and day to day finances, we found that, you know, life happens and investments is something that they always say it's like one of the, one of the seven wonders of the world. And why do you think investment is something that we should start talking about now versus later in life?

    4:44

    Why do I think we should. Or, or.

    4:46

    Yeah, why should we?

    4:48

    Yeah, well, so here's, here's a first. I think that there's this word investment that we need to look at and ask what it means because in all other aspects of our life, you know, like if you think about when you say I'm really invested in this, going well, I'm really invested in the development of this child. I'm really invested in this idea that I have for a business or my team or my community. You mean I'm there with it. I care about this specifically. And there's a whole different meaning of the word in finance where it seems like we're being asked to think of an. We're almost advised to disconnect from understanding what our investments are. Just sort of just dollar cost average in every month. Just invest in the market. Don't think about it too much. If you think about what you're investing in and you bring that same emotional energy into it, it's going to lead you down the wrong Path And I have questions about that because, because I feel like we're always investing in things and, and then we have to use this whole other investment mindset when we talk about finances and money. Even though wouldn't you think that if you were investing in something with your precious hard earned financial resources that you would want it to feel the same way? Like I care about this, I want this to grow. And too often it feels like we're being invited to disconnect our internal knowing and our gut. And then we see these things on TV, you know, even recently with Oracle laying off 30,000 people, you know, and, you know, and we're kind of told, invest in index funds, just invest in, you own Oracle, you, you own that. And then the amount of money that they, of cash that they paid out to their shareholders in the form of dividends, this is like profit sharing. And then promptly went out and borrowed money that's federally guaranteed. Right. So I'm looking at this bigger because I see this big picture dynamic because I'm also inside of organism of these big organizations, these big corporations, and I see this pressure. I feel like it's really important not for us to say, oh, I'm not investing in that, but by the way, I'll tell you, I haven't been invested in the stock market for 25 years.

    7:25

    That's it. I mean, that's it in like grand scheme thing. Like, I mean, if you think about it, it's a lot has happened in 25.

    7:33

    Oh yeah, like, exactly. I sleep very, very well with that choice. And, and people say, oh, did you have like plenty of money at that point? You'd made enough, you didn't have to worry about it. And I'm like, no. But I couldn't reconcile what I was seeing in my work life with what I was investing in because I could see the whole connection of that dynamic. So for me, again, I'm not recommending this and I'm not saying this is what anybody should do. I have a, I, I didn't grow up with a lot of trauma. I, I have a, I have a certain kind of risk tolerance. I'm also a big experimenter in my life, with my life. So this is not me saying, oh, here's what everybody should do. This is me saying, here's my experience. I kind of looked at it and I was like, I don't like what this is doing. I was working at BP at the time that they had the big blow, blowout in the Gulf of Mexico.

    8:32

    Yeah, I remember.

    8:32

    So I was Doing that as a consultant. And I could see all of the things that had led up to that moment with cost cutting in order to give money back to shareholders, all of this stuff. So when you, when we go and we say, hey, what's the best way to maximize my personal returns? We're making companies, corporations do the same thing. And that means they're going, how can I cut costs? It's like, well, I guess I could get machines to do that instead of people. So we're trying to outrun this system that is actually hurting us. You know, like, it's like, I want to get out of this. This is a terrible thing to do. Let me put more money in it. Hopefully it'll grow fast enough that I can retire and get out of it sooner. So it's kind of, I don't know, I feel like without all always kind of clocking it, we're all living with some worry about the effects of an economic system that focuses only on these financial returns and doesn't look at the impacts or the costs of those returns. This is a very old model. We say, hey, what's our risk? And when we look at risk, the only thing we're looking at is our financial picture. So you're, we're saying, okay, I, I don't want. When I look at my financial picture, I want to minimize my risk to my financial picture. So I, I want to diversify. I want to avoid volatility of that. I want to look at my time horizon, make sure I'm not taking too much risk on for when I want to retire or when my kids need to go to college. But we don't look at the risks of what our money that we're investing in there is doing in the world. What is it financing? What is it funding and what it is financing. And what is it. What it is funding? We'll see it on the news, and then we kind of go, you know, like, am I in that?

    10:36

    Right. I'm not part of that problem.

    10:41

    Yeah. And so I'm. Part of. What I want to help elevate is the visibility of that challenge. Right. Because I think first, you know, when you realize that you kind of can make some better decisions about how you're invested, it can look differently. But my biggest thing is to know what you own and not look away from it. We're told not to look at it. We're told the market has always acted how the market works. So you're buying more when it's low. If you just keep consistently buying into It. But when I started investing, and even if I go back to 1990, the average size of a corporation was like less than $5 billion. The average size of a corporation and that's listed on the exchanges is now $133 billion. So it's these companies, these corporations are larger, their most corporate, their most, most countries gross domestic product now. And we're still telling them you need to grow. That's what we're telling them with our behavior. You need to grow. And not just revenues, you need to grow earnings, profit, end of day profit. And that's why we're seeing some of what we're seeing that we go. They seem so greedy.

    12:05

    There is a lot of greed. I mean, there is a whole TV show about it. I mean, we know it's out there.

    12:11

    Well, yeah, yeah. And you know, we sort of think we're just trying to kind of get by into like the ordinary investors, just trying to like, make sure we don't retire and have all this pressure on our kids or whatever, you know, like we're trying to stay out of trouble. But it's really important to, to look at what we're funding, what we are contributing to and make sure that we're invested in that. So part of why I wrote the book was to actually help explain the story, show some of those connections. But I don't want it to be. This is so, you know, so the other thing that I, that I'm doing with the book is telling people what could you do instead? Or in addition to, let's just say you keep everything exactly how it is, except now you're tuned in a different way. And it's like, if you imagine like I'm gonna go buy a Honda Civic, you start seeing them everywhere. It's like if you start thinking, I want to invest a different way, you start seeing different opportunities than you would otherwise. And so I want people to be tuned slightly differently. And there's also some really cool stuff out there that people are doing in their local communities that I want, I feel like, should be replicated because they're, they're different models. So I'm trying to build awareness of those things. And I'm also trying to encourage more people to move into that space and design for that space so that we could pull funds and invest in stuff in our own neighborhoods. We don't have to pool funds and just invest in the largest corporations in the world, you know?

    13:51

    Yeah, I like that because you have an awesome framework. Can you at least, at least talk us through the main high level points of the framework, but at least do a deep dive on the first part of that framework.

    14:04

    So when I, when I. The framework has, basically it requires you to look at the whole picture, right? So you're not. There's two sides when you invest in something, it's a relationship. So on, on the other end of every investment is an impact. So if I say, if I'm investing in a large corporation and part of what they're doing is building data centers, there's an impact there. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. It means you should know what they're doing so you can hold the tension of that and recognize there's trade offs. But when you have an investment, it can have a positive impact on the other people involved, on the community and on the environment that it touches. It doesn't always have to be extractive. It doesn't always have to be the way that we have designed them. In a lot of cases where it's like, I gotta go, you know, these corporations are looking for ways to reduce costs. They're looking for ways to increase prices and build new things to sell so they can do the thing they're told is their job to do. But when you design. So that's the first piece is to look at both sides of the investment equation. What's the return and the benefit to you? What's the impact and potential benefit to people who are in the communities that are affected by that investment? And so that's one piece. The other piece is that another piece is you're looking for reciprocity. So you're looking to design for a regeneration. Regeneration or reciprocity where there is and you know what it is, but there's actually benefit on both sides. So I'll give you an example because people don't know what these, what I'm talking about when I say this. So there's a guy in, in Houston and I'll send you the link afterwards, but you can find it on. Magnolia Fund is a small investment fund that was set up by a guy who grew up in the east end of Houston. And that was and is a very Mexican American part. It was redlined and it was a Mexican part of the city of Houston. And now there's a lot of development that's happening there and it's becoming an area where developers are coming in and doing things, creating new spaces and coffee shops and new businesses. And this, this person, Eric Ibarra, who started it, grew up in that neighborhood and is an entrepreneur and has done a couple of startups, technology startups. And he said, I'm going to team up with a couple of the folks that I grew up with and we're going to launch a fund where we're going to do something so that our neighbors, the people who live in this neighborhood, can invest in this neighborhood and be part of the development of it. So he opened up a fund using the we funder platform and he went and canvassed the area and so together his neighborhood, like 150 people. I think it ended up being about bought and the minimum investment was $100. So you can do it that way. And they bought a commercial kitchen in the area and now it's operating as a, as a, a subscription kitchen for food startups. So that is cool. So, right. Like I think they ended up, it wasn't a huge amount. Right. But like these kinds of things are possible and when you start thinking, hey, you know, there's inclusive ways of making change where you can drive and see what your investment is doing, you know, like, and see the people that are working there. And he's got a whole setup where there's mentoring for experience for you from experienced food makers that live in that area because it's known for that. Yeah. So the idea from a returns point of view, the idea is in five years he'll be able to return capital invested and then after that the intention is an 8% per year return, which is reasonable and probably doable. And obviously you have to have somebody who knows how to put a business plan together to something like that too. It's not just about the real estate, it's also about how you're going to use it. So I won't say that these are simple. It's not like, hey, just put a hundred dollars a month in or you know it, you. They require some, some effort and some thinking. And so it's a different way of imagining your investment life. But the other, so, so the other, the other elements of it are you're taking a much longer term view than the typical investments now. You know, where everything is on a quarterly basis. That's pushing some really bad behaviors. I've sat around tables with, with senior leaders that are trying to figure out how to deal with the fact that an, an oil field is not producing as fast as it was supposed to because there have been some technical problems. There's not less oil than they thought. It's all still there, but they're not delivering it fast enough to hit the quarterly number. And now they have to Make a decision that they wouldn't make if they didn't have the pressure of a quarterly return. So from a invest like a mother point of view, that shouldn't be the reason why you're making decisions. You need to be kind of invested in the real kind of investment way and allow people that are in the business, that understand the business to make decisions that are not just about how much cash can I get this quarter. Right. So it's a long view, it's reciprocal, it's holistic, and it's inclusive. So we're so used to having grown up in a culture that's very individualistic in its point of view to be thinking about financial security as an individual thing. But if you really look around, if you really notice what's happening with financial security, the. The wealthiest people in the world are building bunkers.

    20:52

    Yes.

    20:53

    Which to me indicates that you can have a ton of money and not feel secure. And if this, the. If the mechanisms that are making you rich are actually making the rest of the world less safe and secure, then, you know, you're not secure. So I'm not a big believer in the idea of an individualized notion of financial security. This doesn't mean you don't worry about it. This means you hold it in balance with the bigger picture of understanding that if the only thing that we're worried about is whether we hit a certain number of a goal, that's going to be what we need for retirement. And while we're doing that, we're eroding the conditions for life and security and safety around us, then that's not really a winning formula. Right. So that's, that's the other piece of the framework. It's like we have to consider community safety and security. Is, Is called. Safety and security Are, Are. Are cultivated in community, in, in. In the systems that keep us not worried about shelter and food and the basics of survival. Because if you don't have those things, it doesn't matter how rich you are, you better build a bunker.

    22:13

    Right. Might as well. And so the term invest like a mob and invest like a mother. I want to say mom almost, because,

    22:22

    like, you know, that's. All right. Yeah.

    22:24

    What. Why invest like a mom instead of, like, invest like a parent? You know? A parent. Yeah.

    22:32

    I don't. You know, first of all, I like the way it sounded. I thought it had a little edge to it, but. But also, also because there's a kind of. And it's. Everyone's capable of what I'm talking about. It's not about. It's not about gender. It's not really about gender. It's really about the. The receptive. The part of ourselves that is not really really regardless of gender, not really encouraged, cultivated, paid for, expressed easily in the culture that we have. We have a very driven culture and the. The. The kind of the receptive aspect of the human being. So you get the assertive, which we really do love, and we really do push, and that's the whole grind and. And make your goals and push for those goals. And I actually got really good at that. So as, uh, you know, as on balance, I got really good at that. And it's one of the things that kind of got in my way as I was trying to live my life, because I was like, I'm doing all the right things. And then I arrive at the place and then I'm kind of like. I like about 35% of this. Right, right. We're not really. So. So I'm sort of. I'm sort of leaning a little. One, it's a fun name, and two, I'm leaning a little bit into the receptive aspect of all of that we all have as humans. It's the part that goes what's. What is what really wants to happen here. And you have to sit still long enough to know what's. The. What is the communication that I'm getting from my community in the world. Does it square with. With what I'm doing? You know, there's this kind of inhale, and there's the exhale. The mother is the inhale, the father is the exhale. That kind of idea we're exhaling all day long in this culture.

    24:29

    Right. And everybody out of breath. So, because I was looking at it just like, just a title alone, it just makes me think, okay, I'm thinking stability. I'm thinking, let's, you know, almost like the tiger mom or the bear mom. Like, you know, we're protective of the family, so we're investing for the family for stability, not just we investing for ourselves. And it's more like a selfless investment when I was just looking at the title itself. So thank you for. For bringing that to light of a holistic perspective. Will there be a. For the future, will there be like, invest like, I don't know, like a tiger mob, maybe?

    25:14

    I think I'm more likely to. I'm more likely to move into. Into create like a mom. Create like a mother, which is. Is really moving in, really deciding and really working together as a collective community. Because until you can like, like I said, I, I feel like we have to learn how to be more creative together and that means we have to get more receptive and, and more fluid in how we talk to each other and how we move together and how we create together. And I have been. That's work I've been, that's work I've been involved in. So from the investment point of view, I know that this whole thing is a point in time and it will continue to evolve. And I really. It says invest like a mother. But as you can tell, I believe in a balance. The reason I'm leading with mother is because we're so far out of balance the other way. It's not because I don't value that. It's because we have plenty of that we have plenty of the, of the go get your own and, and you know, be tunnel visioned about what your, your goals are. But I know I have sat with some very powerful people who are looking around going and very successful with all of you know, could be on the shows about how to be successful and are looking around going is this it? You know, like I, I did it. Is this it? This is not fulfilling. And it's because we're kind of, we've kind of cut off our hearts from our heads and we're just doing the thing we're, we're supposed to be doing. So on the investment side, I'm really what you'll see if you read the book and I just finished recording the audiobook. So if you got people that are more audio that should be coming out in a month, more on my speed. Yeah but you'll hear that this way of investing looks at investing not just as financial and not just in the traditional way. Giving is also investing, giving of your time, giving to creators, giving to people like you who have a show and you're consuming that for free and that's okay, you've designed it that way but, but it's like really going where are you getting your nourishment from? And are you committed to supporting its nurturance? So you hear what I'm saying? That's a, it sounds maternal but it's also very, there's a lot of responsibility in it and there's a lot of rigor in it. You know, it's a bigger picture, but it's not soft.

    28:04

    I love that because we, we do tend to forget that sometimes and that we do not really need to soft life but to relax a little and take reflection back what's going back to the very beginning of what you said, we don't take time out to sit and really look at the holistic picture of what, where have we come, how we get, how did we get here and where do we really want to go? And you hit the nail on the head. I mean, obviously you've been doing this for some time now. You know this.

    28:38

    There's one more piece I'll point to as far as the different orientation. So we hear a lot, you know, when, when we go look at investments and when we're talking with people, it's like, how much can I get from this? What's the return I can get from this? And that's the orientation from this framework. It's what is needed, what's needed to sustain you, what's needed to sustain life in general, what's needed to sustain life for the future generations so that we can balance all of that. And instead of saying, how much can I have by the time I'm 65 or whatever, how much do you need to, to have the things and the situation that you need while also respecting that other people need things and while also understanding that you don't really want to. Why would you want to take more space than you need to have all your needs met and your, your, your family handled right. And, but, but it's sort of like there's this hoarding mentality of more is always better. And if you're looking for security with money, what you'll find is that people get to that number and go, oh, this isn't enough for me to have security because I don't feel secure. And it's like, ah, security does not come from that. Yeah, security is a receptive feeling that you get when, when the conditions are secure for you.

    30:02

    Right. So true.

    30:05

    So anyway, so, yeah, it's the change from how much can I get to what do I need?

    30:10

    Yeah. So what does safety look like for you?

    30:15

    Well, I mean, I feel very fortunate in my life, first of all, I have not grown up with insecurity around food or shelter ever. But I don't. The more, the older I get and the more information that I have, the more I recognize that I have a responsibility to, to support better conditions for everybody. And when I see the trends that I'm seeing, I feel like part of why I want to be at the table designing something that's next, why I want to put other creative options on the table for people to look at and consider and plant the seeds for something different. And that is less, it feels less like this, you know, like, that's. That's less breathless and that's less. I've got to hur. And get enough money in the bank so that I. I'm not in trouble later. Like, I'm not. I don't feel like. I'm not somebody who worries a lot about my personal safety. Like I said, I think I would if I grew up in an unsafe space. So I don't feel like, oh, that's not some strength that I have. It's a. It's a luck of the draw of. Of that. What? I didn't grow up with a lot of money, but I didn't grow up with a lot of fear either. And so my take on safety is that I have responsibility to create because I'm not worried about it all the time. I have responsibility to show up and do what I can to make the conditions better for people that don't feel safe and to speak out about the systems that I see that are contributing to those conditions.

    31:54

    That's a whole nother show. Well, thank you for sharing that because we do need more people to kind of shed light on the things that are there. Even though it's kind of like society there, but it's kind of one of those, like, hey, I see the trash on the ground, but I'm not going to be the one to pick it up type deal. But like I said, it's a whole nother show. So the. I guess. Is there anything that we didn't.

    32:24

    I think it's the same show. Honestly, we can do the same show. Well, I mean, I think it's the same topic. It's just a slightly different lens on it.

    32:31

    Yes. Well, I mean, I was thinking, like, we might have to do another recording to talk about.

    32:36

    Oh, yeah, we can do that.

    32:39

    Is there anything that you want to talk about before we get to the final four that we didn't touch on?

    32:45

    Let me think here. I think probably, but I can't think of something that I definitely need to say right now. Yeah, let's try that and see what. Maybe something will come out of the final four and we'll riff on it for a minute.

    32:59

    Cool. All right. Now I'm trying my video here because this is my first time using this because I usually do this in post edit, but this is a live show, so we're going to make it work. All right.

    33:08

    Yeah. Let's do it.

    33:09

    Goes. It worked out all right. It actually worked. Did it kick out? Stop. Oh, it actually worked. Okay, good. So final four questions. These are the final four questions that kind of wrap up the show, learn a little bit more about you and your financial mindset and, you know, just the next things that's been happening with you. So question 1. What does wealth mean to you?

    33:36

    I. For me, wealth means having what I need, having the bases that I need covered so that I have space to experiment and continue doing the things that mean most to me and spending time with the people that I. That I most care about and love. Um, I think there's not. For me, there's. Like I said earlier, financial security is not so much of a. Of a thing that I think about a lot. And I think where people's risk are, where people feel risk, we're all going to feel that, you know, put that in a different place. Yeah. And so, I mean, it's not about hoarding or a number for me. It's about having my. Having my basics covered.

    34:20

    Number two, what was your biggest money lesson?

    34:24

    I think most of my lessons have been about not listening to what my life was telling me, not paying attention to the rhythm of my life. So trying to push myself to start a business sooner than I was really ready to do that. Like, all signs were not yes and. But I wanted to. And there was something I was trying to leave. I didn't want to do that anymore, but I want to do this now. And it was all very much like we've been talking about, kind of from the neck up of what my goals were. So I have to drive to that. And I did. And actually it went extremely well, but from every other measure except that I like it. And then I got to the, you know, so I got. I. I forced it up the hill. And then I was like, I like about 35% of this thing. I don't want to keep doing this thing. And this. As soon as I said that the correct opportunity showed up, and it was like, it almost sucked me into it. You know, it was like, this is where you go right now. That is not where you go. You go over here. If you've been paying attention, you would have felt that and seen that. So. Yeah, but really paying attention to the. To the whole picture and really listening to where the energy is and following the energy instead of trying to push things myself. So, you know, it's.

    35:53

    It's a common theme that I'm hearing from you. It's like an underlying theme of, like, patience that I'm getting from you, of, like, just sitting there and just be patient with it, with the situation.

    36:05

    It's been a Hard lesson for me, you know, and because it goes against everything that we're taught to be successful is like drive it, make the call, get in front of the right people, get your voice into the room. You know, like all of those things. And it did help me generate a lot of success and. But it's within a system that only wants us to be half alive, man.

    36:35

    Getting philosophical.

    36:39

    That might be a whole different. That might be a different podcast.

    36:43

    Yeah, talk to the psychology podcast here. Number three, is there a book that inspires your journey or change your perspectives?

    36:55

    Yeah, one of my favorite books that I sort of walk around with all the time is called Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown. She's a. An activist, African American. Really amazing book for me because she has been in a space that is very challenging for a long time that is pushing for significant change in the world that doesn't want to be changed. So her models for change are really helpful. She kind of takes inspiration from fractals in nature. The way fractals have pattern upon pattern upon pattern. It's the same pattern, but it's repeated until it's this beautiful giant version of that same pattern. And what she's. What she. The case that she makes is that the smallest. The smallest patterns are the same as the largest. So if you can make a change in the most, you can find the picture of that pattern that you're trying to change at the smallest. In the smallest version, the smallest, most personal example, then you're changing the resonance at the big level too. So just stay with that. Small matters. Small change matters. Small matter matters most of all if you want to make big changes. Because pretty much all the time, anytime change is made, that's the way it works is consistent, repeated, small relational changes.

    38:29

    Okay.

    38:30

    It's a good book.

    38:31

    It sounds like it. I might have to add that to my list of why she added to my library. Actually makes you. I'm definitely going to get that one. Number four, what is your favorite dish to make?

    38:45

    I was gonna say spaghetti because. But no, I'm funny. I was actually agreeing with you, mom. I do like spaghetti. And the only thing that I am a hoarder of is probably a garlic bread like that. I. That. That maybe that's. I'm changing my definition of wealth to having huge amount amounts of garlic bread. But. But probably my favorite thing to make is. Is a really good pot roast in the oven.

    39:13

    How do you do you do slow cooker setup?

    39:16

    I have done and sometimes I still do it, but I have this enamel pot that where I break, you know, braise it on top of the oven or on top of the stove first. And then I put this really good herbs and a little bit of tomato paste in there and some. Yeah. And then put it. And then put it in. And then add the potatoes and carrots a little bit later. Oh, it's good.

    39:42

    My stomach growled like it was like, literally like, wow. Thank you so much. Well, this is the very last question of the show, which is where could people find out more about you?

    39:56

    They can find me at invest like a mother.net or on Tina burger.com so that's my. That's my everything. Tinaberger.com but if you want. But. And there's a link to Invest Like a Mother there also. You can find my book Invest Like a Mother on anywhere you buy books. So you can find it on Amazon, you can find it on Barnes and Noble or any of the indie press.

    40:19

    Well, thank you so much, Tina, for coming through. For those of you listening, remember to try not to put both shoes on at the same time. Make sure you tie one at a time and take your time. Be patient. Just like Tina learned throughout the many years of life lessons is to be patient. You got this. Be safe and make sure y' all sign up for my newsletter about that wallet.com forward/newsletter so we get some monthly information and learn about amazing guests so you can listen to them as more and remember to go ahead on and listen. You can actually follow us on about that wallet on all of your social media platforms as well as Spotify, Apple or wherever you listen to amazing financial content. All right, y' all be safe, be out.

    41:04

    Thank you.

    41:05

    You're welcome.

    352: [Tina Berger] Invest Like a Mother

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